Forum Thoughts
Yesterday I held a forum that I Called The Emerging Church:the future of Gethsemane. It is a forum I have held about three times, with a very enthusiastic attendance and lots of good things to talk about. We went over the statistics that are indicating a great decline in the Episcopal Church. Lots of great conversation starters in all of it, anyway, a day late and a dollar short I suppose, I have some responses to some of the comments that always make me wonder about what the chance is we will ever recover from this decline.
Two comments that surfaced, the first is one I hear all the time when talking about growth, the comment is: "We have to remember it is not about numbers." That is usually where it stops, it is not about numbers, but I really start to wonder isn't ALL about numbers? First of all there is a certain set of "numbers", money and people we need to attend Gethsemane so we can grow into a parish that is self sustaining and vital and growing and effective at celebrating God's love for us all. Second, when you are talking about your own spiritual life, and your own experiences, then you are right, it is not so much about numbers. It is about you, but when we gather together on Sunday to worship we have become a complex multicultural living breathing thing. It is about numbers because we are called to spread the word of God, to spread the Gospel, the Good News. The more people that hear it, the better right? Or are we, the few that gather every Sunday morning the only ones who really need to hear it? We are about numbers, we are about numbers for transformation, we are about numbers because as a living breathing biological organism, if we are not growing we are dying, we are about numbers because Jesus fed countless people in his ministry on earth. Our ministry can't be completely impotent in its impact that it only makes the giver of the ministry feel good...
The second comment that was said that I also get a lot is simply: "I don't want to belong to a mega church!" I agree, I would never want to belong to a mega church as we know them today, but why is it we, in the Episcopal Church cannot re-imagine the mega church and create an organization that is not at all similar to the perceived shallowness we have of current mega churches. Why would the Episcopal church's mega churches be the same as those we watch in this day and age. Gethsemane, in its hey day was a mega church of sorts. Something like 4 services on a Sunday, packed to the hilt with people. This place claimed 5 or 6 thousand members at one point in its lifetime, on top of that there were 600 kids enrolled in the Sunday School. If you see the current demise of this place as a result of that time of being a mega church maybe then we can say that, but I think that we would create a heck of a great mega church here in the Episcopal Church.
One of the core values discovered that is present about the Episcopal church in MN is that we value a family feel. We can't stand it when there are people we do not know who are members of the same church. We are a family and anything that disrupts that feeling is bad and needs to be outcast. Our family, as Christians, is this not in the bible somewhere, our family is so much more than those we claim as blood brothers and sisters, our family includes all those who believe in Christ and in God. We can limit ourselves so much, and I hope that the comments said are not meant to discourage the growth of Gethsemane, I believe we should become a mega church with thousands of members who flock to a place of worship praising God and growing in community, love, justice and joy.
Be well,
A+
Two comments that surfaced, the first is one I hear all the time when talking about growth, the comment is: "We have to remember it is not about numbers." That is usually where it stops, it is not about numbers, but I really start to wonder isn't ALL about numbers? First of all there is a certain set of "numbers", money and people we need to attend Gethsemane so we can grow into a parish that is self sustaining and vital and growing and effective at celebrating God's love for us all. Second, when you are talking about your own spiritual life, and your own experiences, then you are right, it is not so much about numbers. It is about you, but when we gather together on Sunday to worship we have become a complex multicultural living breathing thing. It is about numbers because we are called to spread the word of God, to spread the Gospel, the Good News. The more people that hear it, the better right? Or are we, the few that gather every Sunday morning the only ones who really need to hear it? We are about numbers, we are about numbers for transformation, we are about numbers because as a living breathing biological organism, if we are not growing we are dying, we are about numbers because Jesus fed countless people in his ministry on earth. Our ministry can't be completely impotent in its impact that it only makes the giver of the ministry feel good...
The second comment that was said that I also get a lot is simply: "I don't want to belong to a mega church!" I agree, I would never want to belong to a mega church as we know them today, but why is it we, in the Episcopal Church cannot re-imagine the mega church and create an organization that is not at all similar to the perceived shallowness we have of current mega churches. Why would the Episcopal church's mega churches be the same as those we watch in this day and age. Gethsemane, in its hey day was a mega church of sorts. Something like 4 services on a Sunday, packed to the hilt with people. This place claimed 5 or 6 thousand members at one point in its lifetime, on top of that there were 600 kids enrolled in the Sunday School. If you see the current demise of this place as a result of that time of being a mega church maybe then we can say that, but I think that we would create a heck of a great mega church here in the Episcopal Church.
One of the core values discovered that is present about the Episcopal church in MN is that we value a family feel. We can't stand it when there are people we do not know who are members of the same church. We are a family and anything that disrupts that feeling is bad and needs to be outcast. Our family, as Christians, is this not in the bible somewhere, our family is so much more than those we claim as blood brothers and sisters, our family includes all those who believe in Christ and in God. We can limit ourselves so much, and I hope that the comments said are not meant to discourage the growth of Gethsemane, I believe we should become a mega church with thousands of members who flock to a place of worship praising God and growing in community, love, justice and joy.
Be well,
A+
Comments
Moreover, the prophet Isaiah laid out many visions for the people of Israel, one came near the end of chapter 58: "your ancient ruins shall be rebuilt; you shall raise up the foundations of many generations; you shall be called the repairer of the breach, the restorer of streets to live." (vs. 12)
If we are to lay the foundation for generations and restore streets to live in (downtown Mpls for starters), then we need Power and power comes through numbers.
The Episcopal Church has historically exerted a fair amount of influence in shaping public life. Imagine what we could co-create if we had mega-churches! Keep up the emergent energy and don't stop challenging our assumptions.
Peace,
P
Aron